Watching the coverage over the last few weeks about the automotive industry and bailouts. Where I agree a that the industry's problems are partially caused by them resting on their laurels the last few decades I am surprised by the union bashing and complaints about the salaries that the autoworkers were making.
When this started and I was hearing all this about the excessive salaries I checked it out. The average autoworker makes $57,000 a year. I know I'm often out of balance because of my NY point of view, but that sounds like a lower middle class salary to me. Even if you factor in the cost of their pension (I assume that the firms put aside an addition 10% of the employees salary to fund that) and $6,000 a year in health insurance costs that comes to under $70,000 a year, again not what I'd call excessive for a line of work that's a career. Where that's a living wage, I wouldn't call it "excessive" by any means. If we were discussing the compensation for the C level employees of these firms, I might have a different POV but I don't feel the problem is the line worker.
Someone might point out how much cheaper salaries are in other parts of the world. You need to keep in mind however, the general cost of living in these countries is cheaper then it is here.
I do agree that the industry needs to take a hard look at itself. It's time for automotive industry to reinvent itself and become more streamlined. I also agree that a plan should be layed out before any sort of loan or bailout is done by the taxpayer.
FFing Enigma (aka Tina) - Sean, to put it into perspective, skilled line workers in SC top out at about 40k, and that's with over a decade of experience. 70k is the salary of a mid to high level software developer.
Sean Reiser - keep in mind 70K included the healthcare and pension investment.. these folks are making 57K... even so, if the going rate is 40K in SC, how much further can you drop salaries? I think Salaries aren't the real problem here, it's that people don't want the product they are selling
Tad won the tgol1!fd - It all depends on where you live. If you're a blue collar worker in Mississippi, you'll live like a freakin' king on $50k. If you're in NYC, $100k is peanuts. What bothers me is when folks are in protected jobs making a great living when they don't have skills that warrant it. I don't have any specifics, but if you have a job that's easily automated or if almost ANYONE can do your job you don't deserve $50k/year.
FFing Enigma (aka Tina) - Again, this is 40k with no pension, and this is for someone who's been with the company probably 15 to 20 years. Starting salary is around 13-15 an hour (26k-30k a year).
Tad won the tgol1!fd - Who's got a pension any more? I don't have a pension.
Robert Scoble - In China the best programmers are paid $25,000 a year and most make far less than that. We're in a global economy now and that's what we're up against.
MVB (Curmudgeon of FF) - The bigger issue with the auto industry is the domestic nameplates are paying out massive amounts of money in the form of pensions and health benefits for retirees as per the former UAW contracts. A year ago this was around $1200 per unit built. Now that production has been slashed this is sure to be more. The current hourly wage is quite low on the list of what's wrong in Detroit.
Tad won the tgol1!fd - I know that the programmers in India were making a LOT less that I was back 7 or 8 years ago. Today they're making quite a bit more - the best are making around 2/3's as much as the best here in the US are. China has longer to go because their citizens don't currently grow up speaking English. In less than a generation they'll have caught up and maybe surpassed us.
Tad won the tgol1!fd - I very much subscribe to the line of reasoning that goes that only a limited subset of humanity can write decent software. As long as that holds true and until we create pretty high level AI there will remain a strong demand for programmers. I have a skill set which, overall, is not easy to replace or automate.
Steve Lowe - Robert, that's true, but the Chinese depend on high American wages to sell the stuff they manufacture because their relatively low-paid workers can't afford all the stuff they make. If American wages got competitive, it would be a disaster for not just the American economy, but the world's.Sean Reiser, 40, is a developer, technologist, and amateur photographer. Sean has spent the past 20 years as a programmer, system architect and development manager. He is a life long New York resident.
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Discussing exact salaries is always going to lead to trouble, in my opinion. There isn't enough time in these news stories to give the full picture. For instance, I'm here in NC where my husband and I barely make $50,000 combined (when I have a job). So when I hear of one person making $70,000 by himself, it sounds like a lot to me. However, I'm sure that taxes, utilities, housing costs, and everything else are higher in Auto Country than they are down here. Many people don't think of that when they hear the salary.